Longtime UFO investigator Allan Lavigne joins Martin Willis for a deep-dive into the “boots-on-the-ground” era of UFO research—when cases were tracked by phone calls, paper files, and relentless field work. Allan recounts his time with APRO (Aerial Phenomena Research Organization), the pioneering civilian group founded by Jim and Coral Lorenzen, and explains how APRO’s investigations accelerated after Project Blue Book ended. Along the way, he shares what it was like working some of the most talked-about cases of the 1970s and beyond—abductions, crash-retrieval lore, and major sightings that still divide researchers today. Allan also provides a rare first-person account of being the first investigator to interview Travis Walton, why he considers the case legitimate, and what details from that original interview still matter. From there, the conversation shifts into controversial territory: the Billy Meier saga (and how APRO evaluated evidence in the pre-digital age), the Phoenix Lights, the “alien autopsy” film from the perspective of a professional effects artist and law-enforcement veteran, and what he considers credible versus clearly fabricated. Expect behind-the-scenes stories, method-focused skepticism, and a candid look at how investigators tried to separate signal from noise—decades before social media ever existed. The episode closes with Allan’s outlook on disclosure today, what he believes the public is missing, and what meaningful transparency could look like. If you care about the history of investigation, firsthand case work, and how evidence was vetted when it actually had to be vetted—this is one you’ll want to hear. BIO: Allan Lavigne is a former investigator for the Aerial Phenomenon Research Organization from 1974-1980. He went on to a two-pronged career path spanning more than 45 years, as both a Physical Security Specialist and Intelligence Analyst in the private sector, working closely with the Joint Terrorist Task Force, FBI and Homeland Security. He is also an entertainment artist. His early work can be seen in the 1979 documentary UFOs are Real for which A.P.R.O. was the sole technical advisor. Allan went on to create Make-up Special Effects appliances, masks, and props for NBC’s Jack Web's TV series Project UFO for two seasons. In more recent years, Allan has done work for Sony Pictures on Iron Man 1 and 2, Marvel Entertainment, Disney, Lucas Films and others. There are permanent exhibits of his work at the San Francisco Cartoon Art Museum, and San Diego Comic-Con Museum in San Diego's Balboa Park.